Quick word of support for World Soccer Daily
As you may have noticed over the past few months I have started to write a little bit more about soccer and specifically the English Premier League. One of the large reasons for my new found support of the beautiful game has been the extraordinary information and insights offered by Steven Cohen and Kenny Hassasn the fine people who host World Soccer Daily.
After seven years together on August 21, 2009 the WSD gang announced that they were closing up shop and were participating in their final show. Hassan and especially Cohen have been under a barrage pressure due to Cohen’s comments regarding his interpretation of the events that surrounded the death of 96 people at Hillsbrough Stadium, where Liverpool FC play. You can do a Google search to find out Cohen’s comments and their response.
Cohen offered his opinion on the events, as one is allowed to do in America, and was greeted with a full scale smear campaign headed by Liverpool FC’s New York fan club and the team itself. They caused several major sponsors to break away from WSD and encouraged its members to harass Cohen and his family. These actions were reprehensible and after getting fed up Cohen and Hassan decided enough was enough and canceled World Soccer Daily. This is a loss for the American soccer fan and could potentially hurt the popularity of the game in this country.
It is disappointing that certain people decided to use the memory of the 96 as a vehicle to drive an agenda and feed egos. The Hillsbrough incident was a horrible tragedy and Cohen should be criticized for his comments. However, no matter how off base one is with their opinions, they should have the right to express that opinion without fear of familial retribution.
It was a sad day for soccer in America, and WSD will be greatly missed. It was a fantastic show and a must listen for all American Soccer fans.
I encourage all of you to send an e-mail to to Tom Hicks one of the owners of Liverpool FC and explain to him how his support of a hate campaign will scar soccer in America. thicks@hicksholdings.com
WSD 2002-2009
lordelevation
globalcorrespondent
Liverpool FC play at Anfield. Hillsborough is the Stadium where Sheffield Wednesday play. I appreciate Mr Cohen’s right to voice his opinion. However, I respect the right of Liverpool fans and the families of those who died to demand that those opinions are based on accurate information not ignorance and half truths. Do you?
Phil said this on August 23, 2009 at 5:40 pm
No Phil. I expect people who either disagree or dislike WSD not to listen. What I don’t expect or appreciate is the same group of people who claim to be fighting in the name of 96 dead people using terrorist tactics to ruin the show for people who both like and agree with Cohen.
The LFC fans who did this are a disgrace, but then again their actions have always spoken for themselves. Just like Hillsboro, a Champions League final three years ago comes to mind…
Sean said this on August 23, 2009 at 6:30 pm
there is “official” information about how Kennedy was killed. should i be threatened and forced to quit my job because I disagree with the police report?
Mack said this on August 23, 2009 at 6:31 pm
Everyone has a right to voice their opinion. However, the Liverpool fans crossed a line when they began harassing Cohan and Hassan’s families. That is something that should never happen. Liverpool fans can try to ruin his show but when they target the families they are wrong. I hope we can all agree with that.
Sean said this on August 23, 2009 at 7:51 pm
Its a disgrace that the bad side of Liverpool fans have found a way to share their hooliganism, which almost ruined English football in the past. what they did in the beginning, like calling in to cause problems was fine, but when the stakes are raised, putting peoples lives let alone, ones family is disgusting at best. Last time i checked, i wasnt raised to attack people personally, i may disagree with the rest of the world, but i don’t take their comments as an act of war and pursue action. America will mourn this unfortunate loss, and Liverpool football club will realize the same way the world did back in the day, that anything tha comes across is always ruined by them. and i also feel for the honest, hard working, civilized liverpool fans, and soccer fans who used WSD as an escape from the negative aspects of daily life.
To Cohen and To Freedom in America
Anonnymous said this on August 23, 2009 at 8:02 pm
This is unfortunate. I didn’t agree with what Cohen had to say about this tragic event, but I disagree even more with what the Liverpool supporters did. It’s ridiculous. I will never buy anything else Liverpool related. I’ve already thrown away all of my Liverpool jerseys, flags and t shirts. I’m disgusted. Cohen was wrong with what he said, but the way his opponents went about this was atrocious. and ridiculous.
mike said this on August 23, 2009 at 8:33 pm
What else is to be expected from Liverpool?
otariq said this on August 23, 2009 at 9:38 pm
Thanks for the positive response lads. Its always an annoying few who ruin it for the rest of the group. Its pure bigotry and zenophobia at work here. Could you imagine a show like PTI or NFL Live getting canceled because an announcer made disparaging comments about the Dallas Cowboys?
Sure what Cohen said can be interpreted in different ways, but he didn’t say anything bad enough to warrant a hatred campaign.
lordelevation said this on August 23, 2009 at 11:10 pm
Pretty Pathetic, but I would expect nothing less from Liverpool supporters. Was a great show and it will be missed, I hope it can make a comeback.
San Francisco FC said this on August 23, 2009 at 11:40 pm
Cohen is wrong. You can’t blame the families of the dead and expect no reaction. nobody condones violent threats but i’ve yet to hear any proof he got any but regardless they would be wrong.
but what he said is discpicable. it’s the equivalent of getting on cnn and saying America deserved 9-11 and it’s their fault all those people died cause those terrorists to fly planes into buildings.
it’s not PTI. it’s not close to merely diparaging a team. he did that for 8+ year. But when you spread lies about a countrie’s tragedy you’re going to get sponsors to boycott.
the club he supports disowned him. that shows you how bad what he said was. They want nothing to do with him.
” We have distanced ourselves and will continue to distance ourselves from any comments that disrespect the memory of Hillsborough.
We can see no benefit of giving him legitimacy by the club singling him out. Giving Mr. Cohen oxygen is the worst thing we could do. He is not a representative, nor ever has been a representative of the club. We have some 90 million fans worldwide and cannot account for every fan’s opinion.” Gareth Mills, a spokesman for Chelsea (the club Cohen has claimed to be a life long supporter of). http://industry.bnet.com/advertising/10003138/chelsea-fc-disowns-fox-host-in-ad-boycott/?tag=content;selector-perfector
i understand it’s hard for unfamiliar americans to understand but i’m an american and i am familiar with the show and the tragedy. i was a long time follower of the show, some 8 years i believe, well before it’s current name and incarnation. i have nothing against the man. but his words where of spreading lies were wrong.
again where there threats or violence there is NO NO NO Justification. But where you to blame all americans for 9-11, Pearl Harbor, or even blame the parents of Nicole Brown Simpson for her death you’d get a similar uproar. Especially when just like this disaster there is official investigations and ample evidence proving otherwise.
Blackx said this on August 24, 2009 at 12:00 am
And it should also be noted that Cohen’s own words where what started it. and why would you open a years old wound? to what end? He then gave a fake apology. it was clear he was not apologetic when in his final show he stated. “he still stands by everything he said.” I think most of you only have a small part of the story. this guy had a long standing issue with this club and picked a fight with them. and his own words started it. His own words did him in. His own words got the the sponsors to drop out.
it’s an unfortunate situation but the man refused to show any respect for the families of the dead.
Blackx said this on August 24, 2009 at 12:05 am
1. If you are offended by an opinion you should refute it on the same or similar platform with your contrary view. Call it education. Call it debate. That is how it is done.
2. Present your own facts and/or theories to inform curious listeners on both sides of the issue. There is no need for boycotts and attacks which will only hurt your original message in the end.
3. PLEASE stop comparing an unfortunate tragedy at a sporting event to 9/11 or Pearl Harbour! They have NOTHING in common.
4. Even a massive world changing event like 9/11 has created many conspiracy theories or contrarian views that are offensive to many. People are entitled to their opinions, ESPECIALLY when they deviate form the “official” record of events. It’s called freedom.
5. Liverpool is my team and I am very angry that these boycotts have silenced my favourite footy show WSD and its excellent hosts Steven and Kenny.
6. The only thing Steven’s words did was deeply anger many Red’s fans. Steven was boycotted for making consumers angry, not because of what was said.
mlp-1234 said this on August 24, 2009 at 12:47 am
[...] found this ‘random blog’ about Liverpool FC and the Steven Cohen Boycott. The blogger makes some very valid points about [...]
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Quick word of support for World Soccer Daily « The Outsiders' Edge | SignedShirts.eu said this on August 24, 2009 at 1:47 am
There are no opinions on this issue.
Lord Taylor’s inquiry, followed by the recently unveiled police reports documenting the tragedy, have concluded the opposite of every accusation Cohen has made against the supporters of Liverpool FC.
A simple online search into these reports will help clarify- there is no debate on the cause of the disaster.
If there was any smear or hatred campaign, it was conducted by Mr. Cohen against Liverpool Football Club and its supporters. Judging by several of the responses to this article, I’m sad to see he was at least somewhat successful.
Eneal said this on August 24, 2009 at 3:16 am
1. Cohen made things up; from the figures he used initially (6000 to 8000 ticketless fans in the stadium) to blaming Liverpool fans where there was NO evidence, merely his suspicion. That’s not good enough and not worthy of debate. Would you argue with a man who said he traveled to the moon every weekend?
2. The vast majority of Liverpool fans involved in this campaign have carried it out peacefully – read any Liverpool forum and whilst some disparage Cohen using fruity (but never anti-Semitic) language, the majority just wanted an apology and when that wasn’t forthcoming, they simply began to target WSD’s sponsors.
3. As for the belief that “the memory [sic] of the 96 will be forever tainted”, this is totally untrue. In the UK, far greater battles were fought with tabloid newspapers and nobody (bar a select few) will recall this particular incident in ten years time.
4. There’s a gap in the market now. Something WILL come along to fill it and with the many knowledgeable fans of soccer in the US, I doubt it will take too long.
Aidan said this on August 24, 2009 at 3:41 am
All of you Liverpool lovers who disagree with Cohen are right to disagree, but you aren’t right to say he had it coming. is the stereotype really true, about scousers being savages, because you people are proving it. Last time i checked, he stated his opinion, it doesn’t have to be backed by proof. I don’t like AS Roma because of how they treat visiting fans, and i don’t have proof that they do or don’t but if someone disagrees, they don’t have to threat ones family. Some of you morons who think he had it coming for making those comments are out of your mind, if you say you boycotted peacefully, yet are ok with the idea of his family being harassed and pretty much stalked, then your disproving yourself. so because he was a Jew, he had this treatment coming eh? or was it because he had a different opinion, he had no right to share it with the world, the same way Liverpool fans do when something doesn’t go their way. I have grown to notice that not every, but many Europeans are hardheaded and like to call Americans ignorant, yet they show lack of understanding for the subject at hand. this isn’t about 96 people, compared to whats at hand. Balckx you really show your ignorance here when you call yourself an American, and don’t realize that whats at hand here isn’t just his comments, but also his rights. i know one thing for sure, 96 people aren’t nothing compared to the sacrifices our Founding fathers and their predecessors made for our rights today, like Freedom of speech or freedom to pursue happiness. some of you idiots don’t get that, it doesn’t matter whether he was right or wrong, what matters is that if you disagree with him you don’t go around threatening his family or racially profile him. For the record, Liverpool can’t blame the police for hillsborough, the same way we don’t blame firefighters for 9/11. those people put their lives on the job daily and the events that occurred on that dark day can’t be blamed on someone who wakes up every morning, and he has to start thinking of how not to lose lives, they did their best but when fans break the laws, something is bound to happen. im not saying its the fans fault, nor the cops, im saying its everyone fault, and until people start admitting it, then Liverpool will always be tainted by their negative actions.
To Cohen, and To Freedom
Amilcar said this on August 24, 2009 at 8:32 am
Amilcar
Freedom of speech is one thing I hold higher than anything else and this is an abuse of that freedom.
And please stop perpetuating this myth of anti-Americanism and Antisemitism. This is a club the current Israeli captain plays for and he’s loved by the entire fanbase. Cohen’s only crime was his ignorance and arrogance.
Steve said this on August 24, 2009 at 9:00 am
its funny how Liverpool fans can stand up and talk of having benayoun in your team, then turn your head and use antisemitism on others. Freedom of speech allows you to say whatever it is that pleases you, he lives in a place where if people disagree with him that’s fine they can boycott peacefully in the same manner that Dr King did during the 60s, but im pretty sure part of that boycott isn’t about targeting people’s families. Explain to me how did he abuse his freedom, when he was sharing his opinion, be it right or wrong , with proof or without proof? Glenn beck of Fox news has gone as far as calling President Obama, the most powerful man on the earth currently, a racist, yet people are ok with it. Explain how his opinion, which without facts makes sense in the idea that people shouldn’t barge into a stadium if they are ticket less is wrong and should be shutdown at every cost, but far worse accusations are left to be oxygenated? that’s freedom of speech, i may not agree with Mr Beck, or Mr Cohen in every issue, or let alone the rest of the world, but one thing for sure, i don’t attempt to attack him or those around him. Last but not least, last time i checked, my little essay discusses how a comment made earlier portrays the idea of one being American as a cause for not understanding why things between LFC and WSD have evolved in such manner, but my argument counteracts that, because a true American would defend his freedom, and last time i checked Mr Cohen’s freedom was shot down unfairly. he isn’t just an everyday American, he served the country that gave him hope and put his life on the line, so for people who simply dont agree with him to abuse him is complete madness. Whether ignorance or arrogance is a crime in your eyes Steve, here in America such “crime” isn’t punished by taking one’s freedoms away, let alone by having to wake up every morning without knowing if one will find a corpse in their own home.
Amilcar said this on August 24, 2009 at 9:17 am
Hey Blackx
Unfortunately, the world is not black and white.
You think the families of the Hillsboro victims have a sacred right to not be slurred?
Responsibilities, causes and affects, actions and reactions. These things aren’t black and white. How can you justify threatening someone’s family because they pointed out the fact that the blame and responsibility for any disaster can be questioned?
People are always saying things. As the world becomes more media oriented and more global, this is the way things will be.
GROW UP!!! LOSER!
LOL!
Matt in Japan said this on August 24, 2009 at 9:21 am
It’s a care that everyone is entitled to an opinion – but their opinion is not always based on fact. And those in the media, that have an influence, should ensure their opinions are based on facts.
Making an opinion that is based on ill education or wrong information breads content, prejudice and other forms of “dislike” type things.
liveprool fans have a right to protest media folks for stating in correct dialogue.
r___ said this on August 24, 2009 at 9:38 am
I don’t know enough about this event to state my opinion but you Liverpool fans seem to have some valid points. But you are wrong for starting this smear campaign and some of you even if it’s a small few are definitely wrong in threatening Steve and his family. And don’t try and tell me that he is lying about being threatened. I don’t think they would have canceled the show if this wasn’t going on.
Anyway, if you don’t agree with what he says than don’t listen. It’s as simple as that. He is entitled to his opinion. It’s called freedom of speech. Also, I’m not belittling this tragedy but you seriously can’t compare this in no shape and form to Pearl Harbor and 911. That is just ridiculous. And as someone stated above there are many conspiracy theories about both of those events and people are entitled to beleive what they want to believe about those events. I don’t see people starting smear campaigns against people who have a differing opinion that what has officially been put on record.
This campaign is an utter disgrace and you people should be ashamed of yourselves. You take life a little too seriously if you feel the need to ruin someone elses life. I have no idea why someone would feel the need to spend any free time they have to try and ruin someone’s career and show. The only thing I can think of is that you are not happy with your own life so you feel the need to make someone elses life miserable. That is just pathetic.
Thanks for ruining a great show. Thanks for taking away a show people look foward to every day. Thanks for ruining a show people listen to just to get away from the negativity that exists in our world today. Thanks for ruining a show that helped the growth of soccer in America. Thanks for ruining a show that makes people happy.
Joe said this on August 24, 2009 at 9:44 am
Regardless of whether Steve Cohen was using facts or not it is his opinion. To condemn a person for his opinions is wrong. You people must be the same people that called for that girl to resign as Miss California just becuase she gave her opinion.
You people need to move on and get a life.
Bryan said this on August 24, 2009 at 9:57 am
It seems Cohen made ill-informed or ignorant statements in what appears to be a popular media outlet.
As a result, an idiotic section of football fans have hounded him, his colleagues and allegedly his family.
Or, in an even more succinct summary;
Twat says something stupid. Other twats then do something stupid in retaliation.
It’s a story that’s been played out since a primitive animal first made a grunt or squeak that another took exception to.
To call this Cohen vs Liverpool Fans or something equally sensationalist would be inaccurate. It’s Twat vs. Twats, and how it plays out is as irrelevant as it is unoriginal.
All that’s changed is some half-arsed programme that’s been temporarily discontinued. As someone above has said, something will take its place. No-one will remember this in a few months.
Move along, nothing to see here.
Osip Koba said this on August 24, 2009 at 10:17 am
To cancel World Soccer Daily over this shit is unforgivable and lacks class. FREEDOM OF SPEECH, people…you know, what generations before us fought and paid for with their lives??! Unbelievable that this still happens in our world today…grow up & get a life you absolute LOSERS!!!!
Ghislain Courcelles said this on August 24, 2009 at 10:30 am
Osip Koba, SHUT UP!!!!
Joe said this on August 24, 2009 at 10:34 am
Osip, its a real shame that you fail to see the big picture, if your going to bring in the ancient bullshit, then lets be more objective shall we. Racism was “the thing” in the 60s here in America, and we moved on from it and have made a better world for our future generations, so should we accept this event or make the world for our future generations understand that whats happened here is a crime against those who have and still do put their lives at risk to protect our freedoms. if someone disagreed with him so badly, fine do what he does, get a media outlet, like he had, and share your opinion, but dont cover up this bullshit of an excuse to threaten a man’s living, a man’s family, a man’s ethnicity, a man’s life, hell dont stop an innocent civilian from the right to live.
Amilcar said this on August 24, 2009 at 10:37 am
If you didn’t like what Cohen said you could have just tuned him out. Instead you wasted your pathetic lives trying to run him off the air. Congratulations you succeeded. Now GO GET A LIFE!!!! God I hate people.
Nathan said this on August 24, 2009 at 10:42 am
one last comment for those who disagree with my opinion, if you hate my opinion, then insult me, disagree with me please, that makes me happy for you, but don’t threaten my family, or life, because that’s exactly what this innocent man was living every day. it wasn’t the act of insulting him, or disagreeing with him that crossed the line, it was threatening ones live.
Amilcar said this on August 24, 2009 at 10:43 am
Listen, differing opinions are good, but making personal threats against someone or their families is over stepping your bounds. It reflects poorly on those making the threats, not the one threatened. There is no justification for it. The discussion shouldnt be whether Cohen is right or not, but the fact that one group of people feels justified to do anything possible to squash and opposing view to theirs, including making threats to themselves and loved ones.
Mtnplay said this on August 24, 2009 at 10:58 am
MTNplay, you hit the spot, because thats what this country was founded upon, if you differ with someone thats fine, but putting peoples live at risk is a disgusting tactic to “prove” ones point.
Amilcar said this on August 24, 2009 at 11:00 am
Liverpool fans, you proved yourself to be what we all thought you were.
PeeDub said this on August 24, 2009 at 11:12 am
I just think it is pathetic that these people actually took time out of their day to reach out to adverstisers, FSC, and Sirius as well as make threats to Cohen and his family. I’m a Manchester United fan and if he said something terrible about the Munich air crash I would simply stop listening to his show. I wouldn’t go on a personal witch hunt to get him off the air. I’m so tired of people like this. Grow up.
Nathan said this on August 24, 2009 at 11:17 am
Amilcar. The fact that you’ve chosen to focus on the assault on Cohen’s ethnicity actually suggests you’re not over it. A tiny fraction of ignorant berks are always going to refer to it when attacking others. Doesn’t matter what race, nationality or religion any of the culprits on either side are – eventually some dunce brings it up. They do it not necessarily because they believe their remarks to be accurate, because it gets a reaction just like yours. They’re angry and they want to make someone else angry or scared. That’s exactly what’s happened here.
Now, on to your suggestion that if someone doesn’t like something, they ‘get a media outlet and share your opinion’. That’s not exactly a practical idea is it? The start of this problem was the misinformed or malicious (although I suspect the former) comments from someone who had a not insignificant amount of media profile. There really isn’t a way for those who disagree with his piece to then set the record straight to the audience that heard the original comments.
This is frustrating to those that lack that power and influence. The vast majority have conducted their opposition in a rational and constructive way. A mindless minority have blown their tops and crossed over the line of rationality into idiocy.
Osip Koba said this on August 24, 2009 at 11:30 am
YNYA (You’ll Never Walk Alone)
NO !!!
What you should sing as LFC supporters is:
YAWAIYDAWUC
(You’ll Always Walk Alone If You Don’t Agree With Us Completely
Mack said this on August 24, 2009 at 11:33 am
I grew up in England and went to games, home and away for many years. I’ve lived in the U.S now for over 32 years. When I came here in 1976 I lost contact with Footy as there was no coverage here at all, slowly things improved, mostly thanks to Rupert Murdock who dedicated several channels on his cable network to Sports and specifically Fox Soccer Channel was dedicated to “Football”. Together with the Internet, I was back in touch with footy with more than enough supply of games and the ability to follow the coverage from England where my team plays.
Finally, I was able to see the game I loved again and with World Soccer Daily there was an abundance of commentary from pros that instinctively understood the game. For those of you in countries where “Football” doesn’t need quotation marks to identify it as Soccer and where its the number 1 sport, not the 10th, should be aware of how little the support there is for this “Beautiful Game” in this country.
It is for this reason that so many of us are deeply saddened by the demise of this tremendously entertaining show that approached the game from a fan’s perspective. A 2 hour show every weekday, explaining the game and its nuances to new comers and solid source of inside knowledge from top correspondents all over the world to the ardent fan.
Sure there were controversial opinions from time to time which sparked debate that was always open and stimulating. It was a great show that quite honestly, is better than the BBC’s 5 Live shows. I haven’t found as entertaining a show anywhere else.
All you indignant “Holier Than Thou” Liverpool fans need to remember what the crowds were like 20-30 years ago. All clubs had their share of “Skin Head Bover Boy Fans’ that went out on game day, got drunk before the game and then went to the grounds looking for “Agro”. I’m sure those were the types of fans that Steven had in his mind when he made those statements. I saw plenty of violence perpetrated by these types of individuals, while games were in progress. It was not a safe place to go, that’s why there have been so many changes to the game in order to eliminate Hooliganism. The fact that in the inquiry didn’t lay blame there is one thing, but in this country, people have the right to question authority and freely speak there mind. They should not be in fear for their lives for controversial statements they make, the way we resolve these differences of opinions is with debate, not threats of physical harm.
For all you haters out there, you should know that World Soccer Daily had a solid following of hardcore fans of all clubs, including Liverpool, in fact, one of the original hosts and part owner Nick Gebber is himself a diehard Liverpool fan.
A sad day for “Football” in America where, before World Soccer Daily and Steven Cohen, no one even heard of Hillsboro or the disaster that occurred there so long ago.
Be Strong Steven, we need you back on air ASAP!
Neil in Los Angeles.
Neil said this on August 24, 2009 at 11:53 am
so because someones ethnicity is called into question one should do nothing to prevent it from happening anymore? maybe you should read some books about Dr. King or M. Gandhi and tell me if their cause wasn’t worth arguing and proving?
Liverpool fans are angry because he had a microphone and was able to share his views whether they like it or not, so my option is that if they don’t like it, they can say their opinions in the same manner, free country eh, they chose the rather dirty and disgusting tactic of pretty much domestic terrorism.
I don’t think its a question of frustration, because the only way for this problem to go away is to set the record straight and for those who are guilty to come forward and take responsibility for their actions. maybe some of Cohen words were wrong or inappropriate, but i don’t see where he did any wrong, because once again, WSD is his property and as i see it, under American law, he isn’t harming anyone.
Now Osip, you explain me, while most Liverpool fans found peaceful ways to share their concerns, how is it that the “minority” always ruins it for everyone, first it was Heysel, then Hillsborough, then the incidents in Athens and now this???
I am starting to see a trend?
Amilcar said this on August 24, 2009 at 11:57 am
Blackx:”You can’t blame the families of the dead and expect no reaction”
Are you sure about this? I’ve never heard Cohen say that the deceased were killed by their own family members.
Sorry, but your comment doesn’t ring true.
Austin said this on August 24, 2009 at 12:10 pm
Yes, there’s a trend, and that trend is ‘the minority always ruin it for everyone’.
You’ll have to take my word for it, I REALLY don’t have any reason to defend Liverpool fans as a collective, and also, I never listened to this show (coming as I do from a country that has far too much football coverage rather than too little), I’m merely pointing out both sides of the argument as someone who ultimately has no sides to take.
Other people don’t have the option of speaking into a microphone to a massive audience, and this is where Mr Cohen either a) knowingly abused his power or b) didn’t do his research.
You want the maniac Liverpool fans that crossed the line to take responsibility for their actions, but not Mr Cohen? I’d prefer to see both.
As for the mentions of Gandhi and King [Thanks for the tips, but I've read a few books on their struggles already. Unless you're recommending some particular volumes I'm not familiar with - care to share?], I think you’re slightly underplaying their stories even mentioning them here.
For the braindead Liverpool fans that used racist/ethnic insults, consider it the petty last resort of educationally-subnormal hotheads. Every cross-section of society has such scum, and for you to paint all Liverpool fans with the same brush doesn’t make you look that much better.
Osip Koba said this on August 24, 2009 at 12:13 pm
I think Cohen’s mistake as a broadcaster was not maintaining neutrality. Sports hosts are not supposed to spout their opinions, they are there to solicit opinions from their guests and audience. He brought the criticism upon himself, but it’s a scandal that WSD was forced off the air.
Austin said this on August 24, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Great post Neil and so true.
This is a country where you can go into a bar to watch an Old Firm match and see guys in hoops and blue shirts, talking trash to each other but also buying rounds for each other too. No agro here. It just isn’t tolerated
I alwways found it interesting to hear Steven explain how one of the tribe became a Chelsea fan while his dad remains a Spurs fan.
I exchanged emails with Kenny (a Rangers fan) to debate Celtic (my club) to debate who would win the SPL.
They gave us a voice and now that voice is silenced. The gap will not be filled in the same way. I have no interest in watching Eric Wynalda with Nick Webster on Fox Football Fone-in. Wynalda brings a player perspective but it is not what Steven gave to the show.
Nick, Steven, Kenny and Howard perfected that show and made it an Oasis in a land of football apathy. All gone for the actions of a few terrorists
Mack said this on August 24, 2009 at 12:23 pm
so let me get this straight, we both have the same feeling, but my approach is different. If Liverpool fans were able to get a hold of the New York fan club, and were able to get sponsors including higher members of a sports network to ruin Cohens live, then why not use media outlets to share their views rather than do what they did?
Another interesting point is that he had a microphone, but he doesn’t have to apologize for saying whatever he pleased on a show he owned and payed to have. The only think he might apologize for,is for using his freedoms as an American in this country, which comes across as wrong.
Lastly, i mentioned Gandhi and Dr King, because you made comments earlier that came across as “well if antisemitism occurs, then what can we do about it”?(not quoting you here), when in reality we as Americans know that not letting such behavior be tolerable has made us a better country, and one of the reasons why we are the destination for people of different backgrounds, because of our intolerability towards racism and all the negatives associated with it.
Amilcar said this on August 24, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Austin –
The genius of the show was that they wore their hearts on their sleeves. You want neutrality? Go to Switzerland. Where in the media today do you find neutrality? MSNBC shills for Obama and Fox shills for the other side. His show was a “talk” show designed to elicit opinions and discussion. He was not a moderator
Steven Cohen always gave everybody an opportunity to speak. He was annoying at times and arrogant at others but it was a great show and platform for all of us.
He slagged United, Arsenal, and even Chelsea many, many times. He was honest and some people just could not handle it.
Mack said this on August 24, 2009 at 12:29 pm
Osip,
All these people had to do was call into the show and voice their concerns about what he said. It did not have to lead to this. It’s a disgrace. As I said before a normal human being would just stop listening to the show. They wouldn’t call adverstisers, FSC, and Sirius and let them know to boycott the show, and they certainly wouldn’t threaten him and his family.
While they may not be able to start a media outlet of their own as I stated above all they had to do was call into the show and voice their concerns like a civil human being. Enough said.
They might not have been able to voice the
Nathan said this on August 24, 2009 at 12:32 pm
@ Eneal
It’s ridiculous to say there is (or can be) no opinion on an issue just because of an inquiry (Lord Taylor’s findings). That’s like saying no one should be allowed to speak or have an opinion about the Warren Commission report.
http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/index.html
That’s like saying, how dare anyone have a different opinion about the magic bullet theory. And if you talk about it, we’re going to threaten your family.
I disagree 100% with Steven’s comments on the subject of Hillsbrough, but I am still a fan of the show in general. If you are someone who decided to hate Steven and the show for those comments, that’s fine as well. The line was crossed by the Liverpool fans who decided to do more than peaceful protest. It’s wrong, and the way I took it (aka my opinion) is that this attack was also against anyone who supports WSD (wether they agree with everything Steven says or not).
No_WSD said this on August 24, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Amilcar:
Liverpool Fans using the Liverpool New York fan club are not the enemies here, from what I can gather. They used the ‘freedoms of your country’ to tackle what he said the ‘right’ way. A legitimate way. Attempting to contact the broadcasters on more than one occasion and explaining the situation to the sponsors. The minority who made the attack personal were not under the umbrella of the fan club.
You’re right, he doesn’t HAVE to apologise (although it would have been in his interests to do so), but neither do his sponsors have to apologise for pulling the plug.
Also, you’ve really got to stop mentioning your ‘freedoms’ as if they don’t exist outside the US. I live in the UK. Democracy was born here, we have a hugely multicultural population, and are, save for that idiotic minority prevalent everywhere, extremely tolerant.
And I really am going to have to take offence at the quote you’ve linked to me there. That’s not what I’m getting at at all. Fighting for equality of laws is one thing, but fighting for it inside the sub-standard cranium of J. Bloggs is another. You have to go about it in a totally different way.
Osip Koba said this on August 24, 2009 at 12:35 pm
Basically all I was trying to say above was that their media outlet was WSD itself.
Nathan said this on August 24, 2009 at 12:37 pm
@ Osip
It’s irrelevant if the threats came from card carrying Liverpool fans or not. When LFCNY decided to launch the boycott they encouraged all Liverpool fans to assist. This just shows the character of some of the Liverpool fans to be as horrible as we all suspected.
No_WSD said this on August 24, 2009 at 12:44 pm
Nathan, I think you’re missing my point.
I’m not defending the worthless twats who made threats.
I think contacting those responsible for the programme (producers, sponsors etc.) is totally fair if you’ve taken offence. And it’s quite realistic that someone could have taken offence at what he said. We’re talking about the deaths of innocent people. If their families and friends take offence, it’s not up to you, me or anyone to tell them they’re being unreasonable.
Having a programme doesn’t mean you can say what you want and ignore the consequences. In this case, the consequences were – the makers lost the show, and therefore, the viewers lost the show.
Osip Koba said this on August 24, 2009 at 12:44 pm
let me correct you to begin with that Democracy was born in Athens. and while the UK can be a nice free place, lets be honest about this subject in particular. Football in the UK doesn’t have any freedoms. as someone mentioned it earlier, here you can find Old Firm fans in a bar having a go at each other and later buying each other drinks, i can tell for a fact that in the UK you wont find Everton and Liverpool fans in the same street, let alone in the same bar, because The culture outside the US is much different, much violent and unfortunately i am starting to see that it may be spreading in here. whether thats part of the sports passionate fans, and whether thats good for fottie in america, i know that 10 years time, i dont want to be afraid of my sport.
Best example right now is Serie A, and how the Ultras are slowly but surely tearing Italian soccer.
One last thing, you can take offence all you want, but thats the adequate side of a peaceful protest, when extremism takes part in ones ability to operate as a civilised person, thats when trouble arises, and unfortunately for Mr. Cohen, thats the result of barbaric people in this world.
Amilcar said this on August 24, 2009 at 12:45 pm
No_WSD.
See my post to Nathan above.
Oh, and you’ve also fallen into the trap of tarring every Liverpool fan with the same brush.
Just so you know – most Liverpool fans don’t have any idea about Cohen, his comments, or this show.
Osip Koba said this on August 24, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Osip, the consequences of losing the show would have been fine if peacefullky protesting the show worked, they lost the show because God knows how seriously close these people were, remember, he never told us exactly what was going on, for reasons of privacy of his life, but i have a feeling that the threat was serious enough that he could have been in a body bag one day, and that does a diservice to the spread of Soccer in America, and Liverpool Football club itself
If a fan club was able to agree with these bastards, then you know many things are rotten from the top, not from the bottom.
Amilcar said this on August 24, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Bottom line here is: Cohen’s acted like a jerk, threats of violence are wrong, and just as Mr. Cohen has a right to free speech, others have a right to raise awareness about what he has said, and boycott his product should they see fit.
Casting one’s vote as a consumer is an essential part of a democratic, capitalistic society, just as free speech is. In fact, considering the limitations of our democracy, it can be an even more significant resource for the individual.
Telling a consumer that they shouldn’t boycott, raise awareness about, or refrain from consuming a product that they take issue with is like telling people they shouldn’t vote or express themselves freely. Cohen has cast is ballot, and his dissenters have cast theirs; that’s the way it works.
I’m disappointed that WSD is done. I enjoyed the show and was a frequent listener. And let me reiterate, threats of violence are unacceptable and should be prosecuted fully. Apart from that, Cohen has no one to blame but himself for letting his petty, grade school antagonism cost him his job.
Von H said this on August 24, 2009 at 12:49 pm
Amilcar: You’ve shown yourself to know nothing.
I’m an Everton fan. I live in Liverpool. I’m here defending moderate Liverpool fans. Others in my family are Liverpool fans. Many of my friends Liverpool fans.
It’s renowned as a friendly rivalry that devides families for two matches a year. Check out Hillsborough photos if you like, while we’re on the topic – Everton scarves displayed next to Liverpool ones. The whole city mourned, regardless of allegiance.
You’re clueless mate.
P.S. Forgive me, I should have said ‘modern democracy’
Osip Koba said this on August 24, 2009 at 12:52 pm
@ Osip
Read my post again, I said “some” Liverpool fans. Personally, I think it could be as few as 5 or 10. Knowing Steven (I’ve met him) it only took that first threat to his step kid.
I agree with you that most probably aren’t aware of any of this as well. I’m sorry that maybe 5 or 10 Liverpool fans have disgraced all Liverpool fans in my eyes. That’s just how I’m feeling right now, and that is my opinion. If those 5 or 10 want to come after me for it, I wouldn’t be surprised.
No_WSD said this on August 24, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Von are you blind? you just counteracted your argument. “others have a right to raise awareness about what he has said, and boycott his product should they see fit. ” so if one sees threatening ones livelihood as fit, they should proceed with it.
Also,since when can someones opinion be the one to blame for their fall, we arent the ones to judge that, given that he was and always defended his opinion. One could say that there were consequences to his words, but those words of his “enemies” turned into actions, and any Democratic society as you mentioned will not tolerate that.
Amilcar said this on August 24, 2009 at 12:54 pm
No_WSD: We’re singing from the same hymn-sheet I think.
Steven’s comments were incorrect. Unknowingly ill-informed maybe, possibly even malicious, although I wouldn’t make that accusation.
The public have a right to boycott a product they don’t like.
The fans who threatened him are scum.
Osip Koba said this on August 24, 2009 at 12:56 pm
Amilcar
You need to be educated on Everton and Liverpool fans. There are thousands of families where one half are Evertonians and the other half are Liverpudlians. It’s not uncommon to see Liverpool fans in with home fans at Goodison Park, cheering when Liverpool score and there’s never a hint of trouble. The rivalry with Man Utd is a lot more fierce.
Steve said this on August 24, 2009 at 12:57 pm
you cant tell me i know nothing, when you know a majority of fans cant be near each other. your telling me mancunians and scousers sit by each other on pubs during matchday, or Spurs and Gunners fans, or Magpies and Black Cats, or Millwall and Leeds fans, or Ipswich and Norwich fans see eye to eye. thankfully the level of violence in the UK has gone down, and your right i might described it as if England is some hooliganistic society, but outside the grounds we know that opposing fans singing together is a rarity. the reality is that here such events don’t occur, where people threaten others livelihood for reasons of different opinions.
Amilcar said this on August 24, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Steve, when families are involved it might be different, given that they are family, but remember that the rivalry has intensified more since what happened when English football was kicked out of Europe, and Everton were one of the best teams in England.
On another note, you are right, the Man United rivalry is fierce, and on that note, if Cohen had said something about Munich, that would have been wrong, but it wouldn’t be necessary to threaten his family.
Amilcar said this on August 24, 2009 at 1:00 pm
you forgot to mention in your posting that Cohen did make a apology (I can not recall if it was formal or not) but it was not accepted by boycott organizers/participants as it was deemed phony and halfhearted.
I really enjoyed WSD and I doubt something better will come along any time soon. WSD was more enjoyable and entertaining than any other radio I have had the pleasure to come across, even the European ones.
dan said this on August 24, 2009 at 1:01 pm
I only brought you to task over your Everton-Liverpool rivalry words, to be honest, but if you must know, me, my fellow blues, my Liverpool-supporting friends, my United-supporting friends, my Arsenal-supporting friends, and my Wolves supporting dad can all go and watch a match together in he pub in any combination.
It’s true, for a minority (them, again eh?), it’s not the case, but I can’t stress enough how small this minority is.
I’m here every day.
You’re reading articles when something does kick off – usually organised between rival minority knobhead factions.
Osip Koba said this on August 24, 2009 at 1:03 pm
whether its a minority or not, the arguement here is that if a minority is allowed to have their wishes come true (when does wishes involve harming others) like it has happened to Mr Cohens family and those around him, then we fans have to speak out in a peaceful manner to demonstrate that what they did was wrong.
Amilcar said this on August 24, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Well, isn’t that what we’re all doing here?
No-one here has come and heartily backed the threatening fans.
I’ve almost run out of insulting things to call them, to be honest.
Osip Koba said this on August 24, 2009 at 1:08 pm
I’m a huge fan of both Liverpool and World Soccer Daily, and while I was shocked to hear Friday’s pod, the simple fact is that Steven crossed the line repeatedly with regard to Hillsborough. Perhaps it was more his mocking tone than his actual rhetoric, but he allowed his palpable disregard for Liverpool as a team to color his comments about a tragedy where much more tact and regard was necessary.
Steven often talked of the passion of football fans being the greatest thing about the game he loves, and he therefore should have understood as much as anyone what his derisive comments and mean-spirited tone could sow, especially as he pushed views unsupported by documentation in the face of the 20th anniversary.
In my opinion, a man who in some pods would call out the behavior of even Chelsea fans as disgraceful but then openly admitted to chanting “murderers” to American Liverpool fans in a bar quite simply got what he deserved. (Losing his voice in radio, that is — not the alleged death threats.)
Crouchaldinho said this on August 24, 2009 at 1:08 pm
People who threaten families are scum but we don’t know how many have done. Steven’s perpetuated the belief that it’s a considerable number and if it’s one then it’s too many but the vast majority of Liverpool fans I’ve encountered simply wanted him to retract his statements. After that, a number turned to boycotting and they did so because they believed his comments were harmful and would lead others to believe him. Sadly it seems many have taken him at his word so whilst Liverpool fans might come out of this looking somewhat precious they believe it’s better than allowing Cohen to continue propagating outright lies.
Steve said this on August 24, 2009 at 1:09 pm
Crouchaldinho:
“In my opinion, a man who in some pods would call out the behavior of even Chelsea fans as disgraceful but then openly admitted to chanting “murderers” to American Liverpool fans in a bar quite simply got what he deserved. (Losing his voice in radio, that is — not the alleged death threats.)”
Exactly mate – put more succinctly than I’ve managed to thus far.
Osip Koba said this on August 24, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Crouch, in your word explain this audience exactly what he said that was insulting?
all i have heard from the Liverpool contingency is that the police were at fault, while his argument was always about the drunken fans who pushed themselves inside the grounds. all he asked for is accountability of these same Liverpool fans to accept that some of their own created this tragedy, not just the police. same way that in the Ivory Coast, the construction company that built the stadium were some 200 something died is being held accountable, all he wanted was accountability, i dont recall him ever making a joke on the dead of any tragedy.
As for him calling them murderers, i wasn’t there to witness it, and if you have no proof of it, then i cant believe in that comment.
Amilcar said this on August 24, 2009 at 1:13 pm
but the point is that he never used his words to turn them into actions, he lost his hsow because his family were in danger. if you people want prove, listen to his last show, he never succumbed to the protests, even when his life was at threat, once they involved his new family, his new wife and step daughters, unfortunately for those of us that wanted the show to continue, he had to look after them, because family comes first. A men who calls anyone murderers is wrong in doing so, but someone who attempts to commit that action is reprehensible. if the fair thing for him was to lose his radio show, then what would have the fair thing for this terrorist have been?
Amilcar said this on August 24, 2009 at 1:19 pm
You asked Crouch for proof. Where’s the proof his family was threatened? Him saying it? I think not.
I’m not saying it didn’t happen, but if you want to even up the evidence-hunt…
Osip Koba said this on August 24, 2009 at 1:20 pm
there might not be proof, but canceling a show for no other reason seems inadequate. I personally believe he was under a threat, if you listened to his show long enough, you would have heard about different incidents, such as the day he contacted the FBi, or how they acquired info on “Tony from New Mexico” yet never published it out of respect.
Amilcar said this on August 24, 2009 at 1:23 pm
I think his sponsors pulling out might have been adequate…
Osip Koba said this on August 24, 2009 at 1:24 pm
well this discussion was fun, but i have other things to take care off, i will be back LOL
Amilcar said this on August 24, 2009 at 1:28 pm
Amilcar,
If one’s livelihood is in any way based upon principles that another finds reprehensible, sure the other has a right to “threaten it” by having their say as a consumer. That how capitalism works. By your logic, you threaten the livelihood of those at every institution of business you’ve ever NOT shopped at, or have said something disparaging about. The last time you said ‘I don’t like “Brand X”‘s “product,”‘ by your rationale, you have threatened the creators of said product’s livelihood. Call it what you want, that’s your right as a consumer.
Further, people’s opinions and statements are to blame for their demises all the time. In the world of radio specifically, don’t you think part of Don Imus losing his show had to do with his “opinion”? Or Rush Limbaugh when he tried to make the movie to NFL football on TV?
If you get up on a platform and take shots at people, they have a right to express their displeasure.
Von H said this on August 24, 2009 at 1:31 pm
Amilcar:
World Soccer Daily, Oct. 27, 2008:
Kenny: “All Chelsea fans was it?”
Steven Cohen: “No, no, no, no… loads of Liverpool. I mean, I was trying to, I was singing to them, I was singing to them (singing) ‘murderers’. They didn’t even know what I was talking about! (laughs). ”
It was on the pod. I wasn’t there to witness the event, but then again, neither was a certain radio host at a historic football tragedy about which he holds such firm beliefs.
Again, I was a loyal listener to the show and loved tuning in whether Chelsea beat Liverpool or vice versa, but Steven was crass and outright disrespectful of one of the greatest tragedies in sporting history.
It was fine for him to have his opinion (which, apparently, was based mainly on the idea that he “knew what football [and Liverpool supporters] were like at that time”), but to voice it repeatedly and in the way that he did was tempting the reaction he got. To joke, for instance, that the difference between a tragedy and a cow is that Reds fans can only milk a cow for so long is embarrassing and insensitive at a corner bar, not to mention in a show heard by millions.
I think Steven is misguided and don’t agree with him, but to me the reason he ended up in so much trouble had much more to do with his attitude than his words themselves.
Crouchaldinho said this on August 24, 2009 at 1:32 pm
To you all that feel Steven is being disingenuous about threats answer me this. Why would he bale on his own show, he owns it and still has supporters, loyal listeners and sponsors. This is Sirius not the BBC. He was not fearful of attacks on him for all the time he was single. But now, as he just got married to a woman who has 2 young girls who were contacted and apparently threatened through a social networking site by one of these “boycotters”, he threw in the towel..
He felt the safety of his new family was more important than the show. No one pushed him out/fired him it was his decision, no one else’s.
I for one believe of the threats and I’ve seen some of the anti-Semitic emails he received. I’m sorry, did I miss something, when did all LFC fans become so pure and innocent so as to believe that none amongst them would be so aggressive, especially behind the cover of an anonymous screen name.
Cowards!
Neil said this on August 24, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Neil: Read the fucking thread.
No-one’s defending those that threatened his family. They’ve been roundly denounced by every single person on here. Also, I don’t think even a die-hard Liverpool fan would deny there’s a small minority capable of that behaviour. You’re inventing the defence you’re attacking.
Osip Koba said this on August 24, 2009 at 1:38 pm
The evidence is that he canceled his own show. It was not canceled by anybody else but him. Why would he cancel a very successful show for any other reason than he was feeling threatened?
To Osip, you are correct in that people can boycott and protest all they want. They have a right to do this. My point is that why do people feel the need to do so? He had an opinion and he was entitled to it. This opinion did not physically harm anyone. They are just words. To go on a personal witch hunt to destroy his career and life is just ridiculous regardless of whether it is wrong or right.
Nathan said this on August 24, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Nathan:
I can only presume you’re unfamiliar with the depth of feeling towards the Hillsborough. The families of the victims had to fight a national newspaper (The Sun – still boycotted in Liverpool twenty years later. How’s that for a prescedent?) and a police cover-up to clear their names. I suggest you read into it yourself.
At his most innocent, Cohen was merely unfamiliar himself. But that’s why you have to do your research, especially if you’re based on the other side of the world from what you report on, and you’re broadcasting to a huge audience.
It’s no good getting up on that huge pedestal and just start shouting whatever you want. Someone’s likely to want to knock you off.
It’s not up to Cohen (or anyone on here) whether someone takes offence or not. It’s the listeners’ prerogative.
Osip Koba said this on August 24, 2009 at 1:54 pm
Osip,
I understand what you are saying and I understand it is a sensitive topic but it’s been 20 years. People need to get over it and move on.
Don’t destroy a guys life and career just for one comment he made. These people need to get some lives.
Nathan said this on August 24, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Osip Koba,
I was responding to your comment……
“You asked Crouch for proof. Where’s the proof his family was threatened? Him saying it? I think not.” ………..
Its like saying, no one is for the killing of innocent civilians because of their religion, but did it really happen. That’s what a Holocaust Denier says.
I’m hearing a lot of people including on World Football Phone in, on this week’s show Dotun was joined by Tim Vickery and Sean to talk the beautiful game in North and South America. On the show Dotun, with Vickery in Studio, a man who has been a regular on WSD, questioned the authenticity of Steven’s claims that there were indeed threats. You could tell that they were walking on eggshells and not showing any support for Steven.
Neil said this on August 24, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Yea because even if they did support Steve they are afraid to do so because of what might happen to them as well.
Nathan said this on August 24, 2009 at 2:14 pm
Mack,
I appreciate the point you’re trying to make, but a political reference isn’t making it. I have no problem with Cohen’s opinion, but he had to be aware it was contentious, and he’s been broadcasting that opinion for 3 years. I don’t think he had to apologize for the remarks, but his responses didn’t do him any favors.
Austin –
The genius of the show was that they wore their hearts on their sleeves. You want neutrality? Go to Switzerland. Where in the media today do you find neutrality? MSNBC shills for Obama and Fox shills for the other side. His show was a “talk” show designed to elicit opinions and discussion. He was not a moderator
Steven Cohen always gave everybody an opportunity to speak. He was annoying at times and arrogant at others but it was a great show and platform for all of us.
He slagged United, Arsenal, and even Chelsea many, many times. He was honest and some people just could not handle it.
Austin said this on August 24, 2009 at 2:15 pm
Nathan:
Like I said – it’s up to the listener to decide whether what they’ve heard is offensive, and for them to take the action they deem fit. I’m also not the kind of person who would have made a response to the show. If I had listened to it, it would probably have been enough for me to stop listening. But that’s just me. I wouldn’t want to make the same assumption for others. It’s not my place to say ‘move on’. Nor is it yours, or Steve Cohens.
Some people took offence and wanted to make their feelings heard, and many did so by acceptable means.
Let’s not forget, Cohen was making the point that some Liverpool fans weren’t ‘moving on’. That was his motivation. It seems absurd that he should then be surprised by getting backlash. And please, remember, I’m only talking about the ‘acceptable’ responses.
Indeed, he’d been warned in the past, and made apologies for similar things already, so he knew exactly what was in store. I would argue he was potentially seeking controversy, and now he’s had his fingers burned.
Osip Koba said this on August 24, 2009 at 2:26 pm
Its ashame when one gives an opinion about a tragic event then they are attacked. The WSD was a great show and even the minority of Liverpool fans in the US knew that. This a step backwards for soccer in America because we have lost a great forum to discuss, give opinions, rant, laugh and learn about football around the world. I would never have the knowledge I have now about the 96 people that lost their lives without WSD. I was educated. I researched the tragic event and felt sorrow for all that were involved.
Kredpfr said this on August 24, 2009 at 2:26 pm
Neil:
Forgive me, my request for evidence was slightly tongue-in-cheek. I was just suggesting that potentially, threats would be a good cover-up for having the rug pulled from under him.
Disappointingly, I fear a few maniacs making threats to be a perfectly legitimate explanation.
Osip Koba said this on August 24, 2009 at 2:27 pm
And for the perfectly-timed demonstration of idiotic minorities…
See ‘CestpoolFC’ above.
Osip Koba said this on August 24, 2009 at 2:29 pm
Austin –
You commented that he should be a neutral. As I said, his job was not to be a moderator. It would not have been the show that it was if he just listened and didn’t engage viewers
Mack said this on August 24, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Mack:
His employers (producers, broadcasters, advertisers) dictate his job description, and they won’t be all that happy with him alienating sections of the audience and making comments that cause people to at least suggest a boycott of the sponsors’ products.
Surely you accept there’s a line a broadcaster of any ilk can’t cross? He intentionally stepped at least pretty close to his version of the line, but unfortunately the line is different places for different people.
In fact, his co-host thought he’d crossed it, too.
Osip Koba said this on August 24, 2009 at 2:44 pm
it’s just truly sad that a supporting contingent of one of england’s most storied clubs couldn’t bear the words of one man. all because cohen offered his opinion that the liverpool fans themselves were in some part responsible for what took place on that day. the taylor report lays out quite astonishingly how the police and medical response were severely lacking and the stadium officials too played a part in the locked gates. all egregious errors in their own right. all that being said, the liverpool fans just kept coming and coming. as far as i recall, there wasn’t a bulldozer cramming those folks (rest their souls) into the terraces, just the passion they have to see their team play. they crushed their own people for christ’s sake!!! again, with all the factors involved, the fans unwittingly played their part as well. that’s all cohen was saying. one of, if not the worst footballing tragedies ever, but look at the whole picture, people. you can’t just remember the bits you want to and cast aside that which would seem irrelevant.
and congratulations to the LFCNYers and those of their ilk. you’ve ruined it for everyone here in the states . . . all because skin doesn’t grow thick enough on merseyside apparently. you are the manliest of men. i can only pray that your team wins nothing ever again and a meteor flattens anfield like a carragher own-goal. cheers.
stanley said this on August 24, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Obviously the Soccer Gods have an opinion, too. Liverpool are losing 2-0 at half-time
Austin said this on August 24, 2009 at 3:04 pm
lucas own-goal. BRILLIANT!!!!!
stanley said this on August 24, 2009 at 3:08 pm
good on ya, austin.
stanley said this on August 24, 2009 at 3:09 pm
Osip,
Let’s agree, that Steven crossed the line. Have you ever heard of the expression “throwing out the Baby out with the bath water!”
Its the same with football fans, are they all hooligans, no. Do Hooligans exist, most definitely. Could they have been present at any tragedies, almost always!
That’s not to say that all LFC and its fans are that way, but the element exists, not just at LFC but also all over the U.K.
There’s nothing comparable to that here in the U.S., the authorities would come down on them like a ton of bricks, with guns!
Steven has been a strong advocate of good sportsmanship and has been outspoken when it comes to bad behavior by any fans, including his beloved Chelsea.
We all make mistakes, but in this case the penalty is way too high. You have to understand, we in the States have lost our only forum for this subject. The mix of the U.S. culture with “football” was unique, comfortable and was like going to our “local” for camaraderie and to share a love of the beautiful game and now its gone.
There’s nothing else. Steven didn’t cause the Hillsborough disaster, he didn’t disrespect the victims, he just voiced his opinion as to why it happened and I must admit that there were many contributing factor’s including, drunken fans without tickets.
Neil said this on August 24, 2009 at 3:09 pm
Well put Stanley. That is basically what I have been trying to say all along.
Nathan said this on August 24, 2009 at 3:09 pm
In fact, I’d say that Liverpool supporters have gone a long way during this whole thing of proving Steven right. Too bad they haven’t the capacity for nonviolent behavior.
Come on you Villans! 3-1
I’d rather walk alone.
PeeDub said this on August 24, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Neil:
Hooliganism isn’t tolerated over here. You’ve got totally the wrong impression of football in this country. One of the positives to come out of Hillsborough was that stadia were drastically overhauled and there are no more fences or standing areas. There’s absolutely no chance of fans without tickets getting into a premiership game. They won’t let you through the turnstiles if they think you’re drunk. You can’t even bring in plastic bottles with the tops on, in case some knuckle-dragger decides to launch it onto the pitch.
All the Premier League grounds are crammed with CCTV. Anyone reported for verbal abuse will get a five-year to lifetime ban from all football grounds, and violence will get a lifetime ban and police proceedings.
As you can see, the authorities really clamped down hard to cut it out, and it’s worked. I can’t stress enough how much things have changed. The rest of Europe, however, is really lagging behind.
Genuinely, I sympathise with you if indeed this show was your only form of information and interaction. It’s difficult for me to imagine over here.
But don’t let your disappointment cloud the fact that Steven Cohen said some things that he knew others would find offensive, and that’s always a tightrope broadcasters should be wary of walking. I’ll say it once more, I am not advocating the action taken by the stupid few, but I also think we shouldn’t advocate a broadcaster knowingly offending others who have limited scope for reply.
A further note: You shouldn’t presume the minority in this case represent Liverpool FC, or even English football. They would be ostracised in any circle of football fan. They represent idiots and idiots alone.
Osip Koba said this on August 24, 2009 at 4:19 pm
I have listened to World Soccer daily for over 5 years. I have been in the country for over 15 years moving from Manchester.
I’m a CITY fan and it used to bewilder me when both CITY and Liverpool taunted UTD over the Munich air disaster, my God we lost one of ours in that plane crash (Frank Swift).
I belive CITY went some way in repairing the damage when we paid tribute by respecting the 2 mins of silence during the Munich memorial.
I loved the WSD show, it educated and allowed normal football fans to air their views.
I can see that Mr. Cohen’s comments were emotive and in essence he should have stayed away from the subject matter. But once again its an opion, thats all and thus should be taken so.
The show is agreat loss and will not be easily replaced.
It is a sorry situation and in this day and age should have never escalated to what it became.
David said this on August 24, 2009 at 4:25 pm
Osip-
In no way did I write this entry as a means of supporting the blatantly wrong comments that Cohen stated. I wrote this entry as a way of voicing my displeasure at the cancellation of a show I really enjoyed and to voice my concern over the death threats and other horrible things that forced Hassan and Cohen to end the show.
lordelevation said this on August 24, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Osip,
I think we’re beginning to see eye to eye!
I’m pleased to hear that the moves made to eliminate hooliganism in Britain has been so successful; I was just saying what it was like back in the day!
I used to go to all Spurs home games, at first I would sit with an adult in the Grand Stands, but when I was a teenager, my friends and I would go to games and stand, usually somewhere near the half way line, down by the wall, next to the pitch. The thrill of the game and the singing was a religious experience for me when I was a kid, I’ve never experienced anything like it since. I’ve been to NBA finals that couldn’t hold a candle to the atmosphere at a Spurs v. Arsenal game.
The crowd in these areas were hard-core supporters, but behind the goals, it was a different thing altogether. The Park Lane at Tottenham were to be feared as was the Arsenal’s North End, Chelsea’s Shed and most feared of all were the Kop! That’s where the troublemakers stood, and if the game wasn’t going the way they wanted, a fight usually broke out. I remember many times watching as one group would try to infiltrate the other side, knife fights broke out and fists flew and boots were put in, so to speak, the worst of British football.
On the good side of soccer coverage here in the U.S. we now see all the games with many live and in HD, its just the commentary, we’ve lost Football Matters which used to be on Setanta, and now WSD and Steven is an engaging and knowledgeable guy who filled a void over here. You would probably have enjoyed him and his show, regardless of a few misplaced comments. Not to mention Kenny Hassan, a truly talented and funny Scot. I loved hearing their opinions even if I didn’t agree with them.
Neil said this on August 24, 2009 at 4:47 pm
lordelevation:
Then we’re on the same page mate.
There’s only two things wrong – the original comments, and the subsequent reaction by a handful of idiots.
Conclusion: Ruined it for the audience, and sullied the reputation of, it seems, of all Liverpool fans, and English fans by extension.
I’m going to need one hell of a shower after all this Kopite-defending.
Osip Koba said this on August 24, 2009 at 4:47 pm
Neil:
Yes, at one point the violence was all too common. My impressions are slightly different, because the Merseyside derby as always been ferociously competed, but essentially friendly. There are no geographical divisions here. No areas where all are Kopites and others were all are Blues. Families and friends are divided, but only for a couple of hours a year.
I’ve sat with Reds in Goodison, and with Reds at Anfield, and my Kopite mates vice-versa. You’re going to get stick, but rarely have I felt under threat.
I would say that these days, chants and banter cross the line all too frequently, but the actual violence really has, as far as I can tell, totally gone.
I don’t subscribe myself, but I’m told the Times, Guardian and 5Live podcasts are worth a listen. I’ve no idea if they’re anything like the one you’ve lost, though.
Osip Koba said this on August 24, 2009 at 4:59 pm
@ No_WSD:
http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/history/taylor.shtm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7992845.stm
Documented and referenced. It is not a debate over in England. The causes of the disaster are clear and outlined, unlike the events of the Kennedy assassination (where MUCH is up to debate).
There is no debate as to the accuracy of Cohen’s accusations. They are false. He showed bias and venom towards the club and its supporters by making such accusations (and bragging about his chants of “Murders,” etc.)
In the opinion of a Liverpool-born, American-raised, true Blue Evertonian… the fans that chose to peacefully participate in the boycott had every right to do so, just as Cohen had every right (in the legal sense) to voice his misinformed opinions.
The fans that physically threatened or abused Cohen in anyway deserve to be put away, and in my view well get their just rewards. To Cohen, I wish he and his family the utmost safety, and I fully encourage him to pursue legal action against those who may pose a threat to his family. As stated by many before me, this represents the “ugly” side of football supporters, and in truth humanity as a whole. And again, these actions should not be associated with Liverpool supporters as a whole, or the peaceful boycott they conducted.
As an American interested in politics, I see many similarities in method and tactic between Cohen and a well-known political commentator here in the States: Ann Coulter. Like Coulter, Cohen makes, knowingly or unknowingly, misinformed comments that are perfectly designed to infuriate or enrage a specific group of people (again, I’m not saying this is illegal or should be). In Coulter’s case, these people are Democrats. In Cohen’s case, they are supporters of LFC (and to a lesser extent the English football fan as a collective). Coulter uses her comments to fuel controversy, which in turn generates public interest and helps her “move units” (sell her books). I believe Cohen may have used a similar tactic, in an attempt to boost his show’s ratings. Whether or not this is true (only he knows), its hard to deny the similarities.
It’s because of this that Coulter is “boycotted” by certain segments of the American public, and certain talk shows are reluctant to have her participate in the show and certain publishers are reluctant to publish her books. The difference between Cohen and Coulter here is that Coulter has a huge fan base, and financially she has no concern over the entities that boycott her work. Whereas, Cohen does not have the same backing as Coulter and was very dependent on a small number of sponsors to pay for his timeslot on Sirius. Cohen miscalculated the effect his comments would have, and is now, for better or for worse, “paying the price” for his actions. Such was to be expected- there is nothing unfair about this.
Finally, it is a shame that a show of such importance to the soccer community in America has gone off air, and it is equally a shame that a man of such importance to the show insisted upon causing a controversy that he could not afford.
…and well played to Villa today =D
The Blue Half: The TRUE Pride of Merseyside!
Eneal said this on August 24, 2009 at 5:16 pm
What a failed and crippled discourse; a man voices his opinion, and instead of saying “I disagree,” or “we have better information than you” or “let’s not listen to that show anymore” or any number of things, you threaten a man’s family? You contact his children?
Cowards. These “fans” are very, VERY lucky they came across the type of person who wouldn’t escalate the matter, and in that Steven and Kenny deserve the kudos of rightheaded people everywhere. Those that destroyed this beautiful piece of emerging American culture deserve our ongoing contempt, and never deserve our forgiveness.
Taylor Report – you people rest replete in it like its the 9/11 report, or the Warren Commission report…oh yeah, they were full of legit holes and political compromises too…
Gonna go after my children now? What cowards these sad little people are. I’ve gone from not really caring about Liverpool and admiring Gerrard as the most complete – and clutch – midfielder on earth to vehement hatred of that club precisely b/c it seems to stand by official supporters club members who would do this. What a nightmare.
Mel said this on August 24, 2009 at 6:51 pm
[...] Quick word of support for World Soccer Daily As you may have noticed over the past few months I have started to write a little bit more about soccer and [...] [...]
Top Posts « WordPress.com said this on August 24, 2009 at 7:09 pm
You are so unbelievably uninformed it is laughable.
Thank goodness you have taken a keener interest in the game.
I despise the acts of any cowards that threatened Cohen, but I doubt that LFC or LFCNY “encouraged its members to harass Cohen and his family”. I suppose you are entitled to make up a load of nonsense if you like and read the supporting comments of the under or ill informed.
Enjoy your freedom to be a dope.
Alan Reid said this on August 24, 2009 at 8:56 pm
I am gutted… We are not going to get a show like this ever after in the US. Kenny will not be able to run the show like Steven did….
Praveen said this on August 24, 2009 at 10:05 pm
I was a fairly new fan of the show just over a year. I always loved footie but could never see it on a regular basis, except for some on the Spanish channels. Right after Fox soccer became available to my cable company, I discovered WSD through Cohens promotion of his show on Sirius, I had Sirius!
In that year or so I have been overwhelmed by Football coverage. I found a fairly local team to support and went to plenty of Chivas USA games. I bought merch from the U.K. and had a EPL fave. I went to the Rose bowl to see Chelsea and Inter play and I dont like either team too much, but I went from the promotion from WSD.
I arranged folks to show up at local restaurants to watch the Mens US soccer team play and exposed my friends to new things, Football.
That was the positive that I received from WSD and that would have grown if they were to continue.
In just that 15 or so months I have become a die hard fan, because I was exposed to Football in a major way.I’ll keep the torch burning but I feel sorry for those who would have had that experience as I did.
My favorite thing was after a big game that weekend. was to hear Steve and Kenny come on Monday or Tuesday and talk about what I saw and their frank opinions . And I would learn something everytime, something I missed.
I tuned in today to hear about Jozy’s debut at Hull and all the excitement of the media and fans, and Jozy’s. Maybe Jozy would have shared this over the phone, but not today. Because I tuned in and the show is gone. Went to the website and they said it was over.
I’m gonna miss WSD.
jake
jake said this on August 24, 2009 at 11:52 pm
@ Mel:
If you are not aware of the issue at hand, I suggest it is best not to say anything. Maybe you yourself are misinformed on the actions taken by the members of the official Liverpool FC supporters’ clubs that participated in the boycott..
@ the rest of you calling us Scouse terrorists:
Sorry mates, but I left my bandanna and my AK-47 at home for this one.
Eneal said this on August 25, 2009 at 3:44 am
I am outraged. The anti-Semitic threats that this minority of Liverpool fans have set forth against the hosts of world soccer daily. I am getting rid of every piece of Liverpool FC clothing I own. I will never support them again. They have condoned the actions of these zealots and radicals. These fans and this club are right up there with Adolf Hitler.
You Will Walk Alone
Ian Russian said this on August 25, 2009 at 7:15 am
Liverpool FC, its supporters, and allies will pay dearly for their actions in the US. Of course, LFC has been more than clear that it doesn’t particularily care about American football fans. Nonetheless, the stupidity of that mentality will show itself in due course.
Many british LFC fans are not aware that there are two emerging international markets for European football right now…the US and Asia. FIFA recently reported that the most sales for World Cup tickets thus far have come from the US.
The World Football Challenge took place this Summer in the US where Chelsea, Milan, and Madrid were selling out 90,000 seat venues for exhibitions. In fact, there wasn’t even a single match that got less than 50,000 – that’s killing most EPL matches and dwarfing many American sports attendances. Most major clubs, besides LFC, are marketing heavily in the US.
WSD, to those who don’t know, was very intergral to this emerging market. Prior to WSD, the soccer establishment in the states was obsessed with somehow forcing US soccer via MLS to be on par with the EPL. Cohen, Geber, Rogers, and Hassan changed the landscape by focusing the US soccer fan on soccer played at the highest level in Europe.
Slowly but surely, a very real market emerged in America in the form of a groundswell of American enthusiasm and exictement for Euro footy, specifically English football. Cohen’s best talent was somehow managing to bridge the gap better than anyone else between the anti-soccer American establishment and European football.
At this point, Americans arguably have better media coverage of European football than English citizens. When you combine the coverage from ESPN, FSC, Setanta, and Gol, more leagues/games are covered per weekend in the US than you can possibly have time for.
That did not happen by chance….I’d go so far as to say that WSD played a role in ESPN’s recent acquisition of EPL rights. Cohen routinely encouraged his thousands of listeners to petition ESPN.
This was a very close knit, organic effort all centralized through WSD. Americans were being educated, not about Hillsborough (hell, that whole thing was irrelevant to WSD listeners), but about the game itself through experts like Graham Poll, Tim Vickery, Robbie Early, etc. And LFC just fucked all of that up. And why?
Because essentially, they were offended by Cohen’s depictions of an obscure (to Americans) English football tragedy that happened a very long time ago. Since they couldn’t convince the WSD community to destroy itself, they went around the community and harrassed it out of existence.
The simple fact is, if your goal was “education”, you failed miserably. At best, you’ve demonstrated that Cohen was wrong about something which Americans care about to the extent that Brits care about a random plane crash in NY.
At the end of the day, all you practically accomplished was to kill off the most viable soccer community in the United States, achieve whatever personal satisfaction that gave you, and piss off the US Soccer community.
Liverpool FC is damaged goods in the US.
Bud said this on August 25, 2009 at 9:23 am
Anyone who believes Cohen got what he deserved is a terrorist. No one deserves to have their children threatened.
Norm Lybbert said this on August 25, 2009 at 9:54 am
“Liverpool FC is damaged goods in the US.”
I couldnt’ agree with you more. I will never buy Carlsberg because of this situation. Liverpool FC have made efforts to suppress free speech. Let it be known that you can voice your opinion anywhere except Merseyside.
If someone could post Liverpool’s sponsors, that would be great as I would refrain from purchasing the product.
Andrew Forbes said this on August 25, 2009 at 10:21 am
Well put BUD.
Great summary.
David said this on August 25, 2009 at 11:13 am
I have trolled the internet over the weekend and all I can say is that it never should have come to all of this hatred, from both sides.
( I have been listening to WSD for 6+ years. I listen to every other podcast on football and this show had something truly unique in format. The guests journalists have been amazing. Graham Hunter, and so many others, have me drooling. I don’t get to live this spectacle on a daily basis, by being at one of these homes of football, like London, Paris, Rio,Madrid etc, and this show brought that to my doorstep. It was unique for the world’s coverage of football, let alone the US. I am going to stop myself there because I could go on and on.)
I would like to note the two page letter of apology from July 16th, 2009 from WSD. For Liverpool fans I see this as the be all and end all of the apologies. I have rarely heard Hillsborough mentioned at all in the last few months, correct me if I am wrong but no need to slate me if I am not accurate. Also I would like to see a few items procured from Steven Cohen’s side as well about the abuse. I have no doubt about it, as many others associated with the show have attested to receiving threats. I don’t think it’s all just made up to please one man’s ego, not with the show’s sponsors backing this claim. I also would say that plenty of Steven’s views I thought were inane and groundless. And although he tried to draw a line under it and move on, I think HE would have benefitted from direct discussion with LFC supporters.
With all of this escalating in the last few months I would have liked both sides to take the opportunity to shed light on those not as informed on the subject, and allow this discussion to lead to other areas that still cause harm to the game. The hillsborough disaster was relatively unheard of here, and show brought it to light for many. That is the positive side the negative side was the host’s uninformed opinion, and he states that in the apology on July 16th. If any one wants me to post it here I will.
There should have been a round table discussion LIVE in studio with Steven, and a a select few that have run the boycott from LFC, with Kenny as a moderator. Let the fans call in and ask questions of both sides. I feel that more positive outcomes could have been reached. Now I feel the gap has widened. All this slander has created a huge dissolution among American football fans. And with so many fans from other countries now residing in the states, they have a lot to give about these clubs, in both the good and bad. This is where I think the LFC Boycotters have erred in their thinking, by creating a huge backlash against their side, its sponsors, and them personally. I think bad judgement exists on both sides.
I am super bummed and really just want to hear Kenny have his own show and find one or two other people to be commentators with him, and bring it to the next level. Steven was smart to have Kenny on the program to balance out his sometimes outlandish and disrespectful views, and in many cases call Steven out on his sh*t.
Those of us who are caught between all of this truly deserve it in this country to have a show as good as this was.
Roll on the new season, and up the Arse!
Eastside Gooner said this on August 25, 2009 at 11:59 am
Steve has the right to say what he wants here, as do those that were in favor of the boycotts. A freedom of speech is not a freedom from responsibility for what those words may do. He spoke his mind, he paid for it with his business. He’s not the first, he won’t be the last, see Al Campanis, Jimmy the Greek and loads and loads of others.
Joel Mesaros said this on August 25, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Joel,
Al Campanis and Jimmy the Greek didn’t speak their opinion and get into trouble they made racially predjudiced comments about African Americans, Steven was accussing certain fans of being partly to blame.
Its not the same thing at all.
Neil said this on August 25, 2009 at 1:56 pm
For better or worse, through FSC and WSD, Cohen had become voice of soccer talk in the US, but couldn’t stop himself from going back to his terrace conspiracy theory about Hillsborough, again and again.
As a result, there are many American EPL fans, some of whom weren’t even born in 1989, who’ll think that he’s been hounded out of his position. (You can see that in this thread.)
That’s not true: he knew exactly what he was doing, and kept waving a red rag at the Reds. Only a couple of months ago he was full of bravado about replacing deadbeat sponsors, which suggests a lack of self-awareness towards the position he held.
There’s absolutely no excuse for the abuse he’s received, and any threats ought to be followed up to the full extent. But he was spouting the kind of nonsense that wouldn’t be tolerated from a drunk Saturday night caller to Talk Sport in the UK, and got away with it because he was the first and most prominent soccer talk guy in the US.
nick s said this on August 25, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Exactly Joel.
I think the consensus amongst most supporters of LFC is that Cohen did not deserve to get threats to him or his family, but he did deserve to lose his show.
There were countless efforts to communicate with him: emails, call-ins to the show, written letters even.. all for the purpose of setting the situation straight. It wasn’t until pressure was put on his sponsors that he began to issue his empty apologies (which he would go back on days later, or even later on in the show he issued it in).
Again, the events at Hillsborough are not up to debate, it is fairly clear what happened there and why. This is NOT the JFK assassination, this is NOT a plane/missile/nemanja vidic crashing into the Pentagon.
I’m sure the North American branches of the LFC supporter’s club are sad to see it has alienated a segment of the US soccer market- but I’m sure they’ll consider it a small price to pay if it means that Cohen’s “misinformed opinions” will cease to pervade the memory of Hillsborough.
Eneal said this on August 25, 2009 at 2:22 pm
Cohen did not deserve to lose his show. This is disgusting and reprehensible. I did not agree with what he said, but I hardly thought that it was worth death threats, ethnic slurs, and attacking his livelihood. That some of these disgusting people contacted his step children is beyond the pale. It is indefensible what these ASSHOLES did to him and his family. If you hated the opinion, then don’t listen. Plain and simple. Lots of Liverpool fans DID listen, did disagree, and still would have never done this.
The loss of this show is a major loss to American football lovers. I sure hope you are proud of yourselves you rotten bunch of scum.
Roger said this on August 25, 2009 at 3:20 pm
Roger.
They disagreed with his opinions, simply for the fact that they were NOT opinions. They were lies. And because they were lies that desecrated the memory of those that many in Liverpool hold dear, many supporters felt it was necessary to no longer buy the goods or use the services offered by his sponsors, whom were providing the funding for the platform through which he was communicating his lies. Is this not fair? Are they not right to do this, or is this “freedom” you lot keep spouting off about only applicable to Cohen?
And again, it is a shame that certain supporters were so enraged that they sent threats to Cohen or his family. Liverpool FC and its supporters clubs do not support their actions, only the peaceful protest and boycott against WSD. It is unfortunate to note that such supporters exist, but I can say for a certainty that if Cohen began giving “misinformed opinions” on Munich, or implied that the fans of Juventus at Heysel were at fault for the tragedy that occurred there, tiny minorities claiming to be supporters of these clubs would also send similar threats to him and his family. The actions of these small segments should not be associated with the club or their subsequent official supporters’ groups.
Eneal said this on August 25, 2009 at 3:52 pm
WSD was an American business with a largely North American audience. For the English, think of it like your BBC 606 (ironically, I was turned on to this pod by Cohen).
From that perspective, for me it comes down to a simple costs/benefits analysis…
Benefits:
The benefit of this boycott was largely felt by either English liverpool fans or liverpool fans of English decent living in America and the substantive benefit is merely the intangible emotional satisfaction that these fans got from it.
Costs:
The burden of this boycott is largely being shouldered by the American soccer community along with its broader North American members and the substantive burden is the very real, objective, and tangible loss of what was arguably the best soccer community in the US. In other words, the burden is much more tangible.
When considering the fact that the benefit, at best, is merely an intangible emotional reaction amounting to “I feel better now that Cohen is gone” being felt by a primarily foreign (both in terms of citizenship as well as listernship) audience, I think there’s no objective way to say that the costs don’t grossly outweigh the benefits. On the contrary, the costs DO grossly outweigh the benefits.
Here we are, as Americans, Canadians, et al consuming the products of an American business (WSD), a product which was very highly valued by that same audience, only to appease the emotions of primarily English beneficiaries? WTF is about the only thing I can say to that. How the hell did such a travesty occur?
Imagine if Americans had managed to shut down 606? There would be a virtual shit-storm in the English football world. The English, perhaps the most tribally nationalistic about the sanctity of English football are massive hypocrites with this boycott.
Bud said this on August 25, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Its a shame that what seems to get lost in this issue is that Steven’s opinion re: Hillsborough was based on something more ironclad than the Taylor Report…common sense. To say LFC supporters were not *partially* to blame is to say they were mindless. One of the many examples that could be raised: stop and ask yourself, what actions outside the grounds caused the police to in turn make their unprecedented reactions (i.e., opening up additional gates)?
Its embarrassing that in 2009 people cannot have a mature debate/discussion about the details of this topic because of the thuggish reactions by LFC supporters….some of which celebrate the Munich disaster, avoid the Heysel topic as much as possible, yet go crazy and somehow illogically deem it “injustice for the 96″ when any alternative Hillsborough viewpoints are raised. So the families of the 96 are served justice if we continue to blindly believe that Hillsborough is 100% the police/stadium/security’s fault, and 0% the fault of fellow LFC supporters? How is that logical?
On a recent BBC podcast, I heard the point raised that Americans should ponder how they feel about 9/11 criticisms before criticizing LFC supporters for being hyper sensitive about Hillsborough discussions. Actually, many prominent people have held the US government partially responsible for 9/11, I don’t see Americans trying to ruin their careers or misperceiving that to be injustice to those who passed away on 9/11.
Its worth reiteration here…those who disagree with Cohen’s opinion feel that LFC supporters’ actions contributed *zero percent* to the 96 deaths. Can anyone objectively state that this is a logical viewpoint?
Its very sad that so many people in the football world can’t open their minds, get some perspective, and freely communicate on this issue.
Brian said this on August 26, 2009 at 10:47 am
@Eneal: I’m more aware than you know, actually, from multiple perspectives; having actually worked at the highest levels on world football, the discourse I’ve had on this is legion, and includes discourse with LFC itself and its suppoerters clubs in a variety of forms. What happened is what usually happens when civil discourse is abandoned. Language ON THE OFFICIAL SITE like “I wish someone would follow up on these death threats,” etc. motivate the extreme fringe – the cowards – to action, and the body of the effort – everyday, blond angry people – HAVE to take responsibility for the undertaking they launched, language they don’t refute, and club leadership who stand with ALL of that without specifically condemning such. You’re not righteous, you’re petty. Ask yourselves how many of the 96 would want a man’s children threatened and or apporached over a disagreement about whether their compatriots played a role or not in their demise? Its crippled thinking like that shown throughout this discourse being the mode and modus descriptive of how we GET to a place where Cohen’s children are being contacted. I’m telling you, folks are very very lucky that Cohen and Hassan are the ones who responded, and that they resoinded in the way they did. Most I’ve talked to would have responded entirely differently. At the end of the day, a substantive producer of football culture in the USA is gone, and LFC is more despised; NOT because every damned supporter was embracing such outreach to Cohen’s family and the destruction of WSD; but because every damned supporter failed, in a miserable and heinous way, to utter nearly enough to challenge it.
America is what it is today precisely because of the Willingness; the willingness of everyday people to go to the courthouse, jail, hospital or morgue to make America be what it always claims about itself; from Abolition, to Labor rights, to women’s rights to civil rights to GLBT rights to rights for the disabled; all of that came about not because rich white men woke up one day and decided to play nice-nice; rather, it happened because of the aforementioned willingness to to those four things; so we’re used to actually standing fast against, or for, things. Its how the USA has proceeded, why my wife can vote, why we (black and white) can be married.
So for the Americans so aligned, possessed of the willngness themselves, this affront is doubled, our outrage trebled.
Mel said this on August 27, 2009 at 10:31 am
One of the great ironies in this WSD boycott is that the Taylor Report itself includes several facts which make it blatantly obvious that Liverpool supporters were partially responsible for the tragedy (to clarify most likely not the 96 themselves, but some of their fellow supporters). Unfortunately there are a plethora of misconceptions about the Taylor Report (for instance it consists of two reports), and many people involved in this debate are not familiar with the details of the Taylor Report.
For example, in the Interim Taylor Report (Interim being a misleading name here), in the passage #55-70 range, as well as the passage #190-215 range, several specific contributing factors by LFC supporters are cited…unruly drunks exacerbated the situation, fans were violent towards the police, hundreds if not thousands of ticketless supporters attempted to attend, a large number of supporters showed up in the waning moments before the match, supporters attempted to forcibly get through closed gates and jump turnstiles, etc., etc., etc.
Its bears reiteration…people who agree with LFC NY’s stance are saying that the actions of Liverpool supporters that day contributed *zero percent* to the tragedy. Please ponder how incredibly illogical that is before condemning Cohen’s views. If common sense isn’t sufficient enough, then read the evidence in the Interim Taylor Report as an independent thinker and draw your own conclusions (as opposed to blindly accepting Taylor’s conclusions, which are inconsistent with the evidence laid out in his own report).
Apologies to Liverpool supporters for attempting to have open communication about the facts…I know this is forbidden in your world and now I am subject to having my career ruined and family threatened.
Brian said this on August 27, 2009 at 1:25 pm
Liverpool Football Club. The most despised and hated in the world. …… with such good reason.
Blue Evertonian said this on August 27, 2009 at 8:14 pm
WSD is back as WFD check their websites. THERE is still light at the end of the tunnel!!!!!!!!!
Amilcar said this on August 28, 2009 at 4:41 pm
Hmmm, is anyone else wondering why Cohen is starting up again so quickly when the sole reason for him closing WSD down were threats to his family from disgruntled Liverpool fans?
Does he believe the mindless idiots will suddenly go away because his show is replacing the word ‘Soccer’ with ‘Football’ in the title?
Sort of suggests WSD had become financially unviable, due to an extraordinarily successful boycott of advertisers, and this was the sole reason the show was pulled. Strange then that there was no mention of this in his final show?! I guess it was much easier for him to allege threats to his step-children (as yet unfounded btw) and appeal to his listeners’ sympathy. Folks please – he’s really taking you all for mugs, and just watch you all line up with your ten dollar bills like sheep! Pity really. Why not hang fire and wait to see what Sirius do first?
Adrian said this on August 30, 2009 at 9:22 pm
I think the one thats being taken as a mug is you sir. Its been proven in the past of what the minority of liverpool fans ( maybe even majority) are capable of when it comes to been a destructive force of all thats good. Remember the threatening e-mails to George Gillet or even the chants that screamed Go away Americans. A privately financed WFD is the only outcome, since that can’t be stopped unless the LFCNY supporters club think its a better tactic to also threaten all the listeners? I also think he had to comeback, where else could he make the income that he lost because of disgusting people who did what they did. Another thing you fail to assume is that whether he ended his show or not, this fools could continue to harass him forever, so what choices does he have?
Amilcar said this on August 30, 2009 at 10:56 pm
I’m the mug?! Ha. Fine, well let’s see if Cohen’s show is a success then shall we. The worm had chance enough to apologise and not destroy his own career. Chance enough too to prove his threat allegations. Why doesn’t he help LFCNY and LFC to root out the thugs he talks about, if he can track them back to these organisations like he says he can? Purely fabricated perhaps? He’s stooped lower.
For fools like Amilcar the fact LFC fans chant to get rid of the American owners is all the proof he needs. Lock us all up!
Thanks for the reply Amilcar. I’ve clearly rattled you, perhaps too close to the truth. My work here is done. YNWA.
Adrian said this on August 31, 2009 at 5:41 pm